People who play Pokemon Scarlet and Violet are unhappy with the Elite Four.

Some players believe that while Pokemon Scarlet and Violet’s branching narratives are excellent, the lackluster Elite Four bring down the games.

Though Pokemon Scarlet and Violet have been met with a mixed response from franchise fans, many players seem to agree that the Elite Four and Grand Champion are the most forgettable aspects of the games. Reddit user SuccBT explained why Pokemon Scarlet and Violet have the “laziest elite four” and “least exciting champion ever”

Once a player obtains all eight gym badges in a Pokemon game, they must typically battle their way through the infamous Victory Road, a large cave containing some of the region’s strongest Pokemon and Pokemon trainers. Upon achieving this and reaching the Pokemon League, they may challenge the Elite Four and, if they are victorious against all four members, challenge the Champion of the region for their title.

Nonetheless, Pokemon Scarlet and Violet lack a typical Victory Road. Instead, players can walk up a grassy path filled with weak and unimpressive Pokemon like Igglybuff until they reach the entrance to the Pokemon League. If they have collected all eight gym badges, they can then challenge the Pokemon League. The player may finally challenge the Pokemon Scarlet and Violet Elite Four after completing an absurdly simple quiz containing questions such as “Do you like Pokemon?”

SPOILERS: This is the worst elite four in any game from pokemon

All of Pokemon Scarlet and Violet’s Elite Four battles take place in what SuccBT describes as a “blank, boring room,” with each member calling upon the next after defeat – but only after giving the player ample time to heal and save their team. Many players have been quick to criticize Pokemon Scarlet and Violet for a variety of reasons, but SuccBT notes that Game Freak appears to be attempting to add a layer of depth and likability to the Elite Four by lazily presenting them to the player at various points throughout their journey without involving them in the plot in any meaningful way. SuccBT was also critical of Game Freak’s decision to include Larry, the Gym Leader of Medali City, as a member of the Elite Four as opposed to simply creating a new character for the role.

After defeating the Elite Four, the player can finally face Grand Champion Geeta, whom SuccBT deems “the least exciting champion ever.” Geeta’s mixed-type team is underleveled compared to recent champions such as Cynthia from Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl. Geeta’s roster also includes many Pokemon not from Paldea, such as Gogoat and Avalugg, which are weaker than common Champion team staples such as Dragonite, Cradily, and Gyarados. Upon defeating Grand Champion Geta, SuccBT felt that the game did not place sufficient emphasis on their victory, as it lacked a hall of fame or end credits sequence like many previous Pokemon games.

While Pokemon Scarlet and Violet represent a significant advancement for the franchise in a number of ways, players like SuccBT will be hoping that the legendary Pokemon Victory Road and Elite Four can be restored to their former glory in future installments.